Ukraine 242 Podcast
Ukraine 242 Podcast
Sergeant Sarah Ashton Cirillo's Battlefield Insights and Global Dynamics
Can North Korea's military involvement significantly alter the course of the Ukraine war? Join us on Ukraine 242 as Sarah Ashton Cirillo, an American journalist turned combat medic and sergeant in the Ukrainian Armed Forces, provides an unfiltered look into the complex alliances shaping this conflict. Our candid conversation uncovers the unsettling collaboration between Russia and North Korea, including the surge of North Korean troops and outdated yet deadly weaponry on the front lines. Sarah provides a firsthand perspective on the grim reality of "slave labor" involving North Korean workers in Russia and the formidable obstacles faced by North Korean soldiers contemplating defection. This episode offers a comprehensive examination of the broader international stakes and the resilience required to confront such formidable adversities.
Beyond the battlefield, we navigate the intricate geopolitical landscape impacting Ukraine, from President Zelensky's views on former President Trump to the implications of the Israel-Hamas conflict. With Sarah's insights, we explore the waning American attention on Ukraine amid other global crises and the vital importance of sustained U.S. support. As Sarah shares her personal journey, you’ll gain a unique understanding of the identity challenges faced by a trans soldier living under the shadow of an international wanted list. Discover how she finds solace in music and the companionship of her dog, Rexa, while reflecting on the courage and resolve of the Ukrainian people amidst prolonged conflict.
You are listening to Ukraine 242. We bring you interview subjects from all walks of life in wartime in Ukraine. Thanks to all our listeners around the world.
Speaker 2:Thanks to all our listeners around the world. Welcome to Ukraine 242, a weekly program featuring interviews with experts and key people on the ground in Ukraine and around the world, responding to events and issues since the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I am Anne Levine, reporting from WOMR in Provincetown, massachusetts. Today, our guest is Sarah Ashton Cirillo. She was an American journalist who enlisted as a combat medic in the armed forces of Ukraine and previously worked as a war correspondent, primarily for LGBTQ Nation. A trans woman, she is the only American woman known to be fighting at Zero Line, the front, most trenches of the war. Still fighting for the Ukraine Armed Forces and now a sergeant. Sarah Ashton Cirillo talks to us about North Korea, the American election and living as a trans soldier in Kyiv. Sarah, welcome to Ukraine 242. The last time you and I spoke, you were working in Kyiv as an analyst and a media liaison and you were also doing some work at the front. Can you give us an idea of what you are doing now?
Speaker 1:Sure, I'm still focused in a heavy way of analytics with the foreign components of the war. I'm now looking at the war from a more global perspective, and I think that's the best way I can put it.
Speaker 2:Could you tell me about the overall current state of the war?
Speaker 1:Of course, and I think it's the only way we can start. It's no secret that things are a struggle every day, and Russia, unfortunately, has more men, more weapons, but they don't have greater leadership, they don't have greater will and ultimately, they are going to end up as the losing side of this war. It's just a question of how much of their resources do coming into Russia to fight Ukrainians. Is that true? Yeah, absolutely. So we had been tracking North Korean ammo coming in since the beginning of 2024. They fired their first rocket that we were able to recognize as a North Korean rocket into Kharkiv in December of 2023. They also sent over laborers to work in what I've referenced as slave labor roles in mid to late 2023.
Speaker 1:So the connection between Russia and North Korea has been there for some time, during the full-scale invasion, and this is just the next natural progression. So when word began to stream out that, hey, something happened between Putin and Kim Jong-un in the summer of 2024, we recognized that it was just the next step in the relationship between these two dictatorial and terroristic states, and what that next step had been the sending of North Korean troops into Russia to fight on the side of the Russian Federation in their genocidal war against the Ukrainian people. And so, yes, it is true. Currently there's around 10,000 North Korean troops throughout the areas of what I would call near the front lines. We expect them to start engaging in full battle anytime in the next weeks, and the reality is, whoever is wearing a uniform that is supporting the Russian Federation will receive the same outcome.
Speaker 2:You refer to the North Koreans as slave laborer. Could you describe what you mean by?
Speaker 1:that? Yes, absolutely. There's two different types of North Koreans that had come over into the Russian Federation In mid-23 to late-23,. It was laborers who were taking the roles of Russians, who were being sent into the war, and these people were not getting paid, and the North Korean regime was the recipients of what we would know as their wages, hence the term slave labor. The North Korean soldiers slightly different. Obviously, they are carrying out something more skillful, because they are not just digging ditches, but they too are not receiving the same wages that the soldiers of the Russian Federation would be receiving because, again, putin is paying the North Korean regime directly, as opposed to paying these North Korean soldiers.
Speaker 2:Have any of the North Koreans fighting for Russia tried to defect?
Speaker 1:There were rumors of that effect. However, nothing had ever been verified. If I was a North Korean soldier, it would be on my mind the Russian Federation operates with what we would call this sort of second line or kill line of troops. Any defectors are most likely going to be shot by the Russian Federation soldiers themselves before they had a chance to defect.
Speaker 2:What sort of weaponry is North Korea supplying?
Speaker 1:to Russia. They are supplying a significant amount of artillery shells to the Russian Federation since the full-scale invasion began. They have also produced and transferred to Russia missiles. And those would be the two key components of what the weapon systems are that they're providing.
Speaker 2:And are their weapons effective? Are they out of date?
Speaker 1:I love that question because there's a lot of confusion over that and I'm glad you asked it. And artillery shells that even quote misfire or explode when they aren't supposed to are still deadly, and that's one of the biggest problems. Even if you have a dud ratio of 30 or 40 percent, even 50 percent and they sent over six, seven hundred thousand shells, and I believe that's even a smaller number than what they have provided the Russian Federation, you're still talking 300,000, 400,000 shells that are effective, and then, out of those hundreds of thousands that would be considered duds, they can still produce horrific outcomes when they're fired, because when a shell explodes, you still have the shrapnel. Sometimes, when it happens to land in what would be considered the wrong place, that could still have a devastating effect on those who are in the area where that shell lands. So I hate it when people say, oh, these shells have been sitting there since the 60s or the 70s. No, they can still kill in Maine and their rockets and their missiles are very modern and so those are effective. And, as I said, the artillery is still deadly A lot of times.
Speaker 1:What happens with the media coverage of the Russia's full-scale invasion is that things come out piece by piece right. However, now that we've been in this for well over a thousand days, if you look at the totality of it, it has to be alarming, because we have to look at it in its totality, and when we do so, we recognize just how important North Korea is to Russia's fortunes. Despite all of its own internal problems, North Korea has provided Russia with the space and ability to continue their operations. They were able to allow Russia to not have to produce 600,000, 700,000 artillery shells, which frees up the Russian economy to either produce other weapons of destruction or to put the money into research and development of some of these tools of genocide that they utilize against the Ukrainians. And so there can be no question that Russia and North Korea are now intertwined and in this war, together.
Speaker 2:Do you think this is opening a door to China participating?
Speaker 1:Well, we know that China has allowed direct movement of weapons from Chinese factories to Russia. Ultimately, I can't presume what Xi will do. However, I know that Russia will go to any length and work with any group to continue this war of genocide against the Ukrainian people.
Speaker 2:Relatively recently, we heard about a barrage of bombings of Kiev. Would you talk about that Sure, sure.
Speaker 1:I'm based in Kyiv now with the Defense Forces and I've seen the Shaheds, the 136 drone produced by Iran, occasionally produced now in Russia themselves. So the Iranian drones fly around. We also understand that Russia has no issue. In day and night, 3, 4 am. It's truly psychological terror that Russia is trying to inflict and physical destruction of the capital. To suggest that the war is not taking place in Kiev is absolutely foolhardy. The war is taking place in Kiev, the war is taking place in Sumy and the war is taking place ultimately around the globe, due to the fact that the Russian Federation is an imperialistic, colonialistic criminal cabal that is attempting to reshape the world order In Kyiv and in Ukraine. It happened in Syria. It's happening in Africa, in Latin America. It's happening in the United States itself through a soft power manipulation by the Russian Federation targeted at the American people.
Speaker 2:I'd like to hear you address the effects of the American presidential election.
Speaker 1:So for your listeners, so they understand I'm a registered Democrat. I am relatively centrist, but I put out a video on the first day of the NATO summit. It was the morning that the Akhmedet Children's Hospital was hit. I live within very close vicinity of the Akhmedet Children's Hospital, so it was hit and I said that Joe Biden had blood on his hands. The Biden administration and President Biden's national security team have allowed this war to extend in a way that should never have happened, and so when the election took place and President Trump was elected to serve a second term, I can say this we knew what we were getting with President Biden, and that was a slow, bloody war that had no clear path to victory for Ukraine and victory for the European partners who are putting so much into this With President Trump and his team. There's been a lot of speculation, but I have some hopes that there will be a clear and decisive move towards supporting Ukraine in a way that allows for a just peace and for diplomatic victory, and victory on the battlefield as well.
Speaker 2:What has Zelensky said about Trump being elected?
Speaker 1:You know, one of the key points I want to bring up about President Zelensky and President Trump and I talked about this in an interview in 2023 with a conservative paper President Zelensky never suggested that President Trump in any way extorted him, blackmailed him or anything to do with that first impeachment, and I think it's key to recognize that and I think that allows for a way to move forward between the two leaders that the mass media was missing, who were suggesting that President Trump is in some way out to get President Zelensky.
Speaker 2:What about Trump and Putin, who have been seen in rather friendly meetings?
Speaker 1:Yes, president Trump has clearly been more open to at least communicating with the dictator Putin. However, in the end, president Trump has a chance to oversee the greatest rebuilding project in modern history, at least since the Marshall Plan, at least since the rebuilding of Europe and Japan after World War II. He has a chance to clearly demarcate the greatness of the United States in the face of this threat by the Russian Federation and say what you will about President Trump. I have hope that President Trump will recognize this moment and understand that, for as much as he can communicate with the dictator Putin or the dictator in North Korea or the murderous Ayatollah in Iran, the United States is best served by being able to continue to be this global stalwart for freedom and that he can lead the United States in that direction and solidify that reputation for the next generation. And this is the moment, as many people said about President Zelensky, that leaders can stand up and be able to be talked about for the next 200 years, 500 years, etc.
Speaker 2:You mentioned Iran, Speaking of that part of the world. What effect, if any, is Israel's war with Hamas and Hezbollah having on what's going on in Ukraine and Russia? On?
Speaker 1:October 7, 2023,. We understood that the world's attention was going to change overnight, and it did. This new focus created a situation where we had to now navigate a different world order when it came to media coverage, when it came to recognizing funding issues. But Iran backs Hezbollah, Iran backs Hamas. Iran also backs the Russian Federation. So anything that Israel is doing that is weakening Iran is helpful to Ukraine.
Speaker 2:Our guest is Sarah Ashton Cirillo, an American journalist from Las Vegas, nevada, who is now a sergeant in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. I am Anne Levine from WOMR in Provincetown Massachusetts. Thank you for joining us, sarah. The American attention to the war in Ukraine has waned tremendously due to many things that have overshadowed it. What would you like to say to our listeners?
Speaker 1:Thank you for this opportunity, anne. If we look at it and understand, the last 14 or 15 months, it was overshadowed by issues such as the war breaking out in Israel, discussions over the southern border. The American people have seen economic issues that have been at the top of their mind. The election's now settled. We know, moving forward, that it's a Republican House, republican Senate and Republican presidency. To me, what that means is we can focus again on the things that the United States needs to do in order to secure itself and allow its influence to not wane. Moving forward.
Speaker 1:And what does that mean? It means a victory for Ukraine, is a victory for the United States across multiple fronts, and this is what I want the listeners to hear. It opens up an incredibly large and well-positioned trading partner with the Ukrainian people. It also allows for the United States to wash away the stain of Vietnam, to wash away the stain of Afghanistan, to wash away the questions over Iraq. To say, at the moment of greatest crisis and this global war that has broken out, we stepped up and we secured the future of the people of the United States, in the sense of national security, by standing with the people of Ukraine.
Speaker 2:How is what has been the outstanding courage and morale of the Ukrainian people and of the Ukrainian defense forces?
Speaker 1:So there's been polls coming out that have shown some people rightfully so are getting tired. We're at a thousand days of trying to fight off a genocide, a thousand days of full-scale war, and, for some people who have come from places like the Donbass which is Donetsk and Luhansk or spent time in the east, they've been in war for 10 straight years fighting off the Russians, so of course they're tired. The East They've been in war for 10 straight years fighting off the Russians, so of course they're tired. One thing I can know, though, is that the Ukrainian people have a resolve that is almost unrecognized in this world of 24-hour news cycles and 15 minutes of fame. They are going about their business.
Speaker 1:My brothers and sisters in the defense forces are still holding the line at the front. Yes, we see reports of loss of territory, but, compared to where it could be, it's been a phenomenal effort by all of us in the defense forces to protect the Ukrainian people, and the Ukrainian civilians and civil society understand that sacrifice is to continue, and if the Ukrainian people ever gave in, the world would find itself in darkness, just like in 1939, 1941, 1944, 1945, until victory happened, and that's why we can be so proud as Americans and so proud of our partners across the globe, in Europe and in other areas, especially in Japan and the Pacific, that are supporting Ukrainian people, because that support is allowing those who are in Ukraine to continue to hold the line.
Speaker 2:What has happened with the promises and agreements that were made with several Western governments about delivering fighter jets to Ukraine.
Speaker 1:When it comes to the jets and other equipment. There's no way to get around it. What's been promised and what's been delivered across multiple countries has just not matched up. I can't speculate as to why. Despite this, we understand that the people of the United Kingdom, obviously the people of the European Union, continue to stand with Ukraine, and all we can do is continue to press for these nations to come through with what they have stated they would, because the faster that happens, the faster we can end this war in a way that is fair, right and just and most beneficial to all of our partners.
Speaker 2:Sarah, the last time you and I spoke, you told me an incredibly touching story about sitting on, I believe, the shore of Odessa, right at the Black Sea, having something of an epiphany about your faith. Yes, can you tell me where you are with all of that now?
Speaker 1:So, for your listeners, I'm transgender and when I came to Ukraine I had transitioned. I was presenting as a female and I was on the shoreline in Odessa just over a year ago, october of 23. I had already served at the front, I'd already been injured, been back and forth to the front and I was watching an attack on Odessa which was just devastating, devastating attack for hours on end and I realized that the war is so much larger than just an individual and in that moment I recognize the fleeting nature of life. For me, it was just stripping everything down to its most basic elements, which is, if I'm breathing and I can see and I can hear and I have all my senses and I have all my limbs, nothing else matters. All my senses and I have all my limbs, nothing else matters.
Speaker 1:Since that time 80, 90% of that time I've presented as a guy and it's a very unique situation only in the sense that publicly I'm still female, my documents are all female, but for me it really became a situation where my only focus was victory, because when you're living moment to moment fighting off a genocide of an entire nation, you sort of become disconnected from this idea of fight over bathroom, not that it's not incredibly important to those people who are truly effective, and I appreciate it, but $50 barrel of oil for Russia is more important to me than bathroom, because if we're not able to stop Russia, to stop Iran, to stop North Korea, there's going to be a dictatorship that's going to result in either genocidal actions or horrific outcomes for the vast majority of people across this globe.
Speaker 2:I know that you have been plagued on social media by trolls for lack of a better term about being a trans person.
Speaker 1:I don't even think about the trolls anymore, because the Russian Ministry of Interior placed me on an international wanted list. And so when you know that your life is now flipped upside down because you can't go to certain countries anymore, because the Russians literally have you on a wanted list on charges God knows what they are that puts everything in perspective.
Speaker 2:The Russians call you a terrorist. What does that?
Speaker 1:mean. Who knows what they mean, I don't know. One thing that's funny, though, is that on their quote wanted list, it has me as a female. So, after all that time making fun of me for being trans, they have me listed as a female, and so I found that a little bit ironic. That's actually very funny, exactly Like I finally got them to accept that.
Speaker 2:I assume that you're still presenting as a man since we last spoke.
Speaker 1:About 85% of the time I present as a guy, and when I have to travel or there might be other tasks or assignments, I will appear as a female, because all my documents are, and so I take all my female hormones all the time.
Speaker 2:When you travel, say, to the United States, do you do anything to present more as female? Do you wear a wig?
Speaker 1:Do you use I keep a very close crop military haircut now, but my curves are still there. Obviously, my voice inflection can be very naturally female and it can stay in that extended vocal range for weeks and months. So, yes, I actually present as just an average 47-year-old female, you know. And so when I go back to the States or I travel or I travel inside of Europe, I travel as a female and there's no issues to it. So it truly is me being able to present both as a male or female.
Speaker 2:How are you doing? How do you feel in general?
Speaker 1:No, anne, I've known you for a couple of years now and what I'll say is after a thousand days of war for me here, yeah, I've changed. I'm a much more private person now. I don't socialize nearly as much as I used to, for a variety of reasons. A lot of it has to do with my work being very specific and very specialized and very sensitive, but also because, simply put, sometimes after a thousand days of war, you just want to do your job and just get on to the next day. As I always say, the only goal is to see the sunrise.
Speaker 1:I became very famous here, as you know, which I don't mind, and it allowed for a lot of opportunities for the defense forces and for Ukraine as a whole. I took a lot of controversy, which I was well-suited to take, and now, simply put, I just want to win this war, and winning this war takes a lot of mental and emotional bandwidth, and so I have a very closed circle of contacts. It's a different existence than even when I talked to you in March, and a wholly different existence than what I was living in 2022 and 2023. And I don't mind it at all. You know, everybody goes through different challenges and different journeys and that's where I am right now in life. I think I would feel more lonely if it wasn't my choice to to sort of have become more introspective and spend a lot more time alone. But I feel love here, like I live around people, so I'm not some hermit, so I just sort of do my thing.
Speaker 1:I go out and I walk my dog and I live in a very specialized military district but close to the city center. When I say specialized, I mean there's a lot of military there. I'm still very close with a lot of international journalists, so when they come into town I open up a little bit more. But for the most part again, one of the key issues is that it's an isolated kind of work because of the information that I deal with, and so it's just easier to sort of do my thing and walk my dog. What's your dog's name? Rexa, she comes from the village that, if you remember when the dam was destroyed, novokolka yes, my Comes from the village. That, if you remember when the dam was destroyed, novokolka, yes, my dog from Novokolka, and I love her.
Speaker 2:Well, she must be a tremendous comfort.
Speaker 1:Absolutely no-transcript.
Speaker 2:Well, here comes the question that you know is coming what song would you like us to play?
Speaker 1:You know, I was thinking of home. When I say home, everybody thinks Las Vegas, which is true, but I grew up in rural Florida. And so there's this song called Florida Days by Jimmy Buffett, and it talks about watching airplanes take off and some people are dreamers, right. And it also talks about how one night in Beirut was like a lifetime. Jimmy Buffett saying that. And I've never been to Beirut, but I sure as hell have lived through war. But when I listened to that line now he talked about one night in Beirut under fire being a lifetime.
Speaker 1:And now I've been in Ukraine for 996 days and I'll be very personal. I was telling my partner I miss the Florida twamps. I had a hobby I would take pictures of gators and snakes and I grew up around gators and I used to think, like dealing with the gators was a big deal. I can't wait to go back to dealing with the gators Now, the idea of the solitude of it, of not having to hear the noise and not having to worry about drones, when all you're worrying about is to dealing with the gators. But there you go.
Speaker 1:So you asked about a song was on my mind Florida Days by Jimmy Buffett. But I'll be ready to go home, whatever home is, after we win, because, as a United States citizen, I love our country so much and I understand that to love our country means to win the war at whatever it takes. And then we'll sort out the rest later about gender and swamps and everything else. I'm just glad that you've been on this journey with us, anne, and always glad to be on your show. I know you guys get the message out to people who care about Ukraine and we're just grateful for journalists that still understand that what we're doing here matters.
Speaker 2:Well, it is my true pleasure. I'm so grateful that you share with us.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, anne. Please give a big virtual kiss and a hug to our beautiful, beautiful country for me. Have a great evening, thank you and you too.
Speaker 2:Okay, bye-bye. Our thanks to Sarah Ashton-Sarolo. I am Anne Levine, host of this week's Ukraine 242, reporting from WOMR-WFMR in Provincetown, massachusetts, and Orleans, massachusetts, music Florida Days by Jimmy Buffett, editing Ursula Rudenberg, recording Michael Levine. Sarah's Twitter is at Sarah Ashton LV. That's at Sarah Ashton LV. Thank you for joining us. Until next week on Ukraine 242. Each other's lives away. Bloody winds on a distant day. They're looking for a better day, looking to the left, looking to the right.
Speaker 2:Looking to the stars to shed some light, hoping for a breath, hoping for a breath, hoping for a break, hoping for the give without the take.
Speaker 1:The dreamers line the state road just to watch the runway show. Slouch behind their steering wheels, they just watch the big jets go Streaking through the morning haze focal point of a distant gaze, looking for the gang of bays.
Speaker 2:We'll be right back Hail invaders and tan crusaders.
Speaker 1:Worshipping the sun.
